But again I explained why I chose Dallas. You can either keep silent, go of to somewhere else who will accept your gossip, or repent.obviously I would prefer the latter! Can I assume that you are now withdrawing the remark about Matt Chandler not being a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived? ", MacArthur is married to his wife, Patricia. But cant we all recognize how difficult we find that? You Wouldnt Be Dashing Him And Family And God House Stop being jealous Stop Counting The Heads In The Church And Start Counting Youre Blessing We Still Have A universe To Stand On And spreading the message good God And Getting People Ready For Whats About To Come..Btw Are You Ready For When God Comes? Each person will answer to God for themselves. 4) Wrong on all counts. (Note the attempted injection of humour!). You are aware of them as you demonstrated when writing about Mr Furtick. [11] From 1966 to 1969, MacArthur was hired as the faculty representative for Talbot Theological Seminary. I live maybe two hours from the Village and have visited twice. MacArthur told her she needed to model for her children how to "suffer for Jesus" by enduring David's abuse. Drawn from over fifty years of intense Bible study and regular expository teaching, John MacArthur's verse-by-verse study notes, book introductions, and articles display an unwavering commitment to interpretive precisionwith the goal of making God known through His Word. Sitting in a restaurant in Charleston, North Carolina, we were delighted to meet a group of four men, who included a young man from the UK, who was working for a church called Elevation in Charlotte. ", "New Covenant Theology Compared With Covenantalism", "Why Every Calvinist Should Be a Premillennialist, Part 1", "Megapastor John MacArthur says 'no one is gay', compares homosexuality to adultery", "L.A. megachurch pastor mocks pandemic health orders, even as church members fall ill", "Fact Check-CDC comorbidity figures presented in sermon do not undermine deadliness of COVID-19", "L.A. County could pay $400,000 settlement to church that fought COVID-19 mandates", "John MacArthur and Grace Community Church win $800,000 settlement from California and L.A. County", https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/february/grace-community-church-elder-biblical-counseling-abuse.html, "Questions and Answers -- Patricia MacArthur", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_MacArthur_(American_pastor)&oldid=1142238580, This page was last edited on 1 March 2023, at 07:45. Why do you think that that was disgraceful etc but G Whites bracketing of Furtick with Chandler was not? Your email address will not be published. Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? Williams has more than misgivings about neo-Calvinism (as he calls it to call Piper, Keller and the Proclamation Trust neo-Calvinists is just silly). Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. lq mk I dont know enough to say anything about the worship, church structure and other ministries of the church, so I wont. rm. As a southern Christian (in North Carolina), Im truly thankful you posted one of Alistair Beggs videos to show the contrast between Truth presented with integrity and intellegence, and the slick mass market Charlotte speed preaching thats become hip with mega church crowds. IMHO he totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way. [39], For example, with respect to sexual orientation, he asserted that "no one is gay" as "God didn't hardwire anybody"[40] to be gay any more than he "hardwires" individuals to be adulterers or bank robbers. He teaches a completely restored Israel shall inherit physical ownership of the land of Canaan on the earth. Now of course the labourer is worthy of his hire, and it is not a sin to be rich. New Calvinism quenches that desire, and true dedication to a distinctive Christian life.. Were deeply grateful for that. That is grotesque manipulation and a parody of the Gospel. Thanks again, Your email address will not be published. This British website sets out clearly the Biblical gospel, compared to the ME gospel, in the context of evangelism. Rather than ignoring these churches and individuals Scotlands born again believers need to stand up and contend for the faith. He has been the pastor-teacher of Grace . The preacher's admission came amid news that Grace Community Church in Sun Valley received an $800,000 settlement from Los Angeles County after defying pandemic-induced health orders. It all depends how you measure success! He has to answer to God of where is heart is and how he gets or gives the money he has. 3) There is no point 3) other than it is a demonstration of your setting up a straw man in the hope you will have something to argue against. New Artificial Intelligence Program ChatGPT Generates Concern: A Liberal Bias? Grace Community Church parishioners make their way to Sunday service in Sun Valley on Sept. 13, 2020. In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. I did read your comments. Why is that disgraceful and totally unwarranted? Sadly, however, there are also times when you use it to bully, abuse and browbeat. One other thing is that success can get to ones head. [9] In 1963, he was granted a Masters of Divinity from the Bible Institute of Los Angeles's new Talbot Theological Seminary, in La Mirada, California, with honors. Surely there are members in the congregations of the mega churches who intend to be sincere, and big doesnt have to be bad. IN terms of his preaching we do disagree. "[23][24], In 1983, MacArthur first published his belief in the doctrine of "incarnational sonship." Can I suggest a little more humility? 3) You respond by providing no evidence and say that you are not against mega churches. The problem: Elevation Church, led by Steven Furtick, suggests that an invitation to be baptized will be more effective if 15 volunteers are the first to move when the invitation is given. March 5, 2021 . Theres clearly no transparency or accountability at Elevation Church! John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated radio program Grace to You. issued his own declaration against the county, John MacArthur Warns Christians to Stop Making 'Alliances With Satan' in Remarks on Religious Liberty, Falsely Accused: John MacArthur's Grace Community Church 'Cleared of COVID-19 Outbreak', but Battle Rages On, 'It's Tyranny': Pastor MacArthur Will Get His Day in Court, Fighting CA Shutdown of Churches, Historic Win: John MacArthur Claims Victory in Lawsuit Over Church Restrictions, After Asbury Shutters Revival Services, Outpouring Moved to Lexington Arena: See Full Video Here, 'I Prayed in the Name of Jesus, and He Answered': Heroes Rescue 17,000 While 'Saving Aziz' in Afghanistan. I agree that the greatest threat to the church comes from false teachingas you will know if you read this blog. But if the theology and ecclesiology is off, then alarm bells start ringing. G White this is the mega church you are setting up as an example in opposition to Matt Chandler? Im not sure though why I should apologise for my Amazon remarks? 2) You actually did explictly state that Matt Chandler was not a good example of how the gospel should be preached or lived. And they aint all wrong. He spoke for an hour without notes and held his audience completely in the palm of his hand he is a brilliant orator using all the tricks of the trade. So I was pleased to see the topic addressed here, particularly as there is another story breaking about Mr Furtick in North Carolina even as I write this. (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times via Getty Images), Even as the pastor was sick, the church elder remained upbeat, adding, "Its pretty pretty amazing we have guys with sermons in their Bibles wherever you go and so Mikes going to be here.". It is an appalling rant already and Ive only read the first couple of chapters. This is way more than urging caution, as you later suggested. As for the scandal yes I was aware of it. Your reply was typical of the kind of legalistic posts which I regularly get sent. L ast week, John MacArthur celebrated 50 years in the pastorate at a conference at his congregation Grace Community Church. If your love is put off by answers you dont like, then like the BeeJees I need to ask how deep is your love?! Yes, some of it is biblical and Furtick is a good communicator, amusing, connected etc.but a great deal appears to pay only passing lip service to the Bible. Your endorsement of Williams book which I have now read is indicative of that. Find a Church . John MacArthur was able to summarize Furtick as a minister with one word: unqualified. MacArthur responded, "Go home." MacArthur is a strong proponent of expository preaching, and has been acknowledged by Christianity Today as one of the most influential preachers of his time. Market data provided by Factset. John MacArthur and the folks from Grace to You (GTY) have done the body of Christ a great service by continually warning Christianity against the growing dangers within the Charismatic movement. I will reply to them briefly. If he has lots of money good for him, if he has a nice home- good for him. Cho was told by MacArthur to "forget it" when he called on the elders to "do justice. There is no legalism or self-righteous pride in anything I said. Jenna . There is nothing more basic than these. And the notion that radical Islam is going to defeat the gospel is just as daft. And I wasnt using any of the debating society tricks of tu quoque and ad hominem in anything that I said. Excellent post! I made no comment on how Matt Chandler lives as a Christian. In 1960, after a year off, he was accepted to the Free Methodist Churchs Los Angeles Pacific College, where in his senior year he observed two games of football, going on field once for one play (see 1962 yearbook statistics). A prominent elder at John MacArthur's Grace Community Church (GCC) has resigned, stating in email leaked to The Roys Report that his "conscience and convictions" were not aligned with other GCC elders. You then accused me of muddying the waters by dropping in a bit of juicy gossip. In case you missed the news, Christianity Today is reporting on a pattern of spiritual abuse on John MacArthur's Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. An apologist and blogger is claiming that Matt Chandler's sermon was censored during a rebroadcast. Despite concern from church members, Grace Community Church has assured the public that MacArthur is recovering and doing better. 38, 31-32). So I hoped and prayed that this would not become another crash and burn mega church story. . All rights reserved. Your replies to G White were disgraceful and totally unwarranted, particularly in light of the respectful way he/she raised a perfectly justifiable concern. I know in theory you agree with He must increase, I must decrease as do I. I think putting Chandler in the same category as Furtick is disgraceful and totally unwarranted and thus simply ask G White to justify that. John MacArthur, pastor of the popular Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness. . We only do pale imitations of what is not great anyway! Thats hypocrisy, and no, that doesnt constitute name calling. During the event, MacArthur accused the Southern Baptist Convention of . "[30] MacArthur holds to the dispensationalist school of premillennialism, a pre-tribulational Rapture of the Church, and a literal Millennium. It does say that if you are not careful many with money err from the faith and it also says the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil, NOT MONEY ITSELF. As it happens I was sent this video by someone who was praising it.it is more like a political rally (complete with clapping) than a Christian sermon the misuse of Scripture about borders is bad enough but the approving citation of Donald Trump Is it time to start bombing the you know what out of ISIS (that is a biblical response) was appalling. Jenna Ellis,the churchs attorney,tweeted about the settlement. How easily the lure of money and outward success can lead a good man astray, and sadly take with him many people. Opinion Mark Wingfield. "[18], MacArthur is a cessationist, holding that the "sign gifts" (such as prophecy) described in the Bible were temporarily granted to the apostles to authenticate the origin and truth of the scriptures, and that at the close of the Apostolic Age these gifts had served their purpose and ceased to be granted. To this end he cites the biblical passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-12. That is just nuts. to this article here https://theweeflea.com/2020/04/22/return-to-elevation/). The challenge (as you have already pointed out) is to warn and admonish from a place of love, and of course to pray. The incident referred to was a very serious matter and Christian publications in th USA documented the churchs mishandling of it, which was why I had urged caution. MacArthur has written three books on the subject. All I would say is that there was no irrational, ranting, preaching anywhere in it. On February 9, 1969, he was hired as the third and youngest pastor at the nondenominational Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California. The news clip above catalogues the controversy about his $1.8 million new build house caused. An unknown man clad in black confronted Grace Community Church pastor John MacArthur during service on Sunday, Aug. av. Because Elevation Church certainly dont want to. All rights reserved. The young man concerned served for many years as a missionary in South America before returning to the USA to head up the North American Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention. The screenshot below is from page 4 of Elevation Church's helpful Spontaneous Baptism How To Guide. 4, 3-4). Los Angeles County had sued the church and its pastor, John MacArthur, last August after officials said he had he opened the church and held a large indoor worship service with unmasked attendees . [18] Furthermore, he believes that we are obliged to render full submission to scripture above all else and that "[t]o mishandle the Word of God is to misrepresent the One who wrote it. I simply stated that the book on my Amazon feed was priced at 30 and I was not going to pay that. In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. I kind of dreaded this type of response. If you stop and think about what you have written you will I hope grasp what is wrong with it. I was somewhat alarmed by the endorsement of Matt Chandler as a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived.. The Good Contrary to expectations I am not one of those Calvinist ministers who automatically discounts any church which grows beyond a couple of hundred, as being a mega fake, doctrinally incorrect, pseudo church. [1] He has been the pastor of Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Sun Valley, California since February 9, 1969. [6] During a 1979 interview, Pastor MacArthur stated he is "distantly related to General Douglas MacArthur." Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. Sorry David, we must be talking about different books. 2023 FOX News Network, LLC. MacArthur responded "unqualified" and proceeded to argue that Furtick, pastor of Elevation Church, was not qualified, by Biblical standards, to be a pastor. John MacArthur Takes on the New Apostolic Reformation & Rick Perry's Prayer Event This is a portion of the transcript from John MacArthur's sermon from October 23, 2011 . If we believe that the message in our books is from God, and we feel it so strongly, then we dont really need to promote it, do we? Give me one example of Kellers irreverence? It is sometimes quite difficult to know how to answer you because of the way in which you misrepresent what is being said. The Bad Sadly, whilst every church has the bad, because we are all sinners and therefore infect any structure or organization we are part of, there are sometimes churches that go much further and wander away to the extent that one can hardly call them a church at all. I'm a bank robber. This was sourced through interviews with ex-Grace Community Church Elder Hohn Cho. It is the Bible watered down by a mixture of Waltonesque homespun wisdom, pop psychology, stand up comedy and an unhealthy doze of how to missiology. I would be tempted to add, Because youre worth it! pokmon the series xyz. Perhaps then a mature and open discussion could then take place. The entire message was based around how God can meet all MY needs. People make millions selling sex, playing sports and funny you never hear the news say that is wrong. It is still priced as such on my Amazon feed.thankfully someone pointed me to another link which I have now used to buy the book for a couple of pounds on Kindle. [14] In 1986, he was made President of the new Master's Seminary. Even though it was only a couple of pounds I regret wasting the money. Furtick preaches a different gospel. Im not sure that things work in quite the same way in the US. It was neither juicy nor gossip. As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. Mike no one is saying that a pastor should be poor. (You can read the follow up five years later! The biggest threat to the church comes not from fundamentalist atheists or those of another religion, it comes from within. I surrendered to a calling of God. I Gotta Reply This Is So Pathetic, First Of All As A Leader In Christ Steven Furtrick Is A Good Pastor And If You Really Heard His Message ,He Is A Man Of God And He Only Speaks The Truth You That Are Workers Of Iniquity Be Sure That Youre Sins Will Find You Out Second Of All How In The Hell You Gonna Sit Here And Judge A Man Of God ..I Believe God Called This Man To Build His ( God) House And Get The population Ready For Whats About To ComeAnd Its Far More Then Noah And A Flood.If There Were Many Pastors Like Steven Furtrick In This World There Wouldnt Be So Much Hate And Crime And Killing Drugs Etc News People Why Dont You Start Digging In The People That Are Really committing crimes Stop Digging In Something You Know Nothing About Cause If You Really Knew How God Works . Cool name, cool Church I knew that it was one of the fastest growing mega churches in the USA, and had heard a little of its pastor, the dynamic Stephen Furtick. Wendy Guay's friend, Lisa Ward, was a witness to an attempted abuse by Paul against herself and his own daughter back in 1979. So far there has been no evidence given for assertion. He did not say Timothy Keller is an anti-Christian preacher. MacArthur was also given an honorary degree from Talbot Theological Seminary (Doctor of Divinity, 1977) and from Grace Graduate School (1976). Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book I hope it is not a waste of good time! If you are going to reply that something is pathetic can I suggest you avoid capitalising everything. This is what I mean by legalism in my original post. You equate him with the false teaching of Furtick and Elevation Church. But in this instance let me assure you I am not mocking. When asked why he marketed his book (or to be more accurate why the church paid thousands to market his book), he was unapologetic, if he didnt believe the message he wouldnt market it. In your second post you again make the false claim that I set Dallas against Chandler. Btw, yes Im a pastor of a tiny church and I have worked multiple jobs all 20 years I have been at the church to make ends meet. There is nothing that makes me believe in God and the Gospel more than the church in all its beauty, and there is nothing makes me doubt more than the church in all its ugliness. Period. His church takes in $500,000 per weekcertainly it has given $10 million over a decade to other causes, but for a congregation which is taking in over $26 million a year, that is hardly sacrificial giving. But I find it astonishing that you cite it here in a massive church (and smaller churches) there are bound to be people who are sex abusers and the church will not always handle that well. However, Chandler did choose to turn a blind eye to the unbiblical teaching and behaviour of Mark Driscoll, as did Piper and Keller. Mutual Fund and ETF data provided by Refinitiv Lipper. Your other comments were directly applied to the Megachurch movement I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. Again I am glad that you were not criticising the whole mega church movement (although I am sure you will understand why your initial post can be read that way).which megachurches are you happy with? No pastor should be above reproach, there should be no untouchables in the church; even Peter was rebuked by Paul when it was necessary. Its not the first time that youve responded aggressively when a pastor that you hold in such high regard is questioned. You then go to the other extreme and say that I am lumping every mega church together. [48][49], In February 2023 Christianity Today[50] published multiple instances of MacArthur's Grace Community church advising woman to stay with sexually and physically abusive husbands. But there is one criticism that I want to deal with in finishing. MacArthur 12 having been Jul 25, 2017 - Explore Rhonda Johnson's board "Elevation Church", followed . The point I made about Matt Chandler himself is that it took the pressure from outside his church to galvanise him into doing something. My point was that its not only out and out heretics, such as McKenna, who are a danger to the church. Their influence has been growing and recently . If not why do you feel in a position to judge? http://religionnews.com/2016/05/11/why-pastor-steven-furtick-skirts-scandalous-questions/. In case theology and ecclesiology sounds almost too technical and dulljust remember we are talking about who is God, and what is his church? Whatever its founding intentions, we conclude that the Proclamation Trust is now a compromised organisation committed to the flawed teachings and practices of New Calvinism. Its not the unadulterated Word of God for our generation. [45] His major contention was that there was no justification for closing down churches over a disease with 94% survival rate according to misinterpreted data from the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Given that is neither what I wrote, nor what I think. Im afraid your post is a classic example of taking a bible verse out of context and using it, whether ignorantly or deliberately to defend sin. What talent, what ability, what fantastic communication skills, what self-belief, what a tragedy! Eventually, all lawsuits were settled out of court with the County of Los Angeles and the State of California paying $400,000 each to Grace Community Church. And after 63 years of sacrificial kindness to our city, to be repeatedly threatened with court-ordered efforts to shut Grace Community Church down when no one is sick reveals an inexplicable preference for a mostly harmless virus over the life-enriching and necessary fellowship of the church., As for MacArthurs own battle against COVID-19, the 82-year-old pastor was absent from the pulpit on Dec. 27, 2020. Either way the theory that a pastor should be poor is ignorant. John MacArthur Responds to 2021 Julie Roys (Part One) - YouTube #pastorjohnmacarthur#johnmacarthur #gracecommunitychurch#julieroys This sermon clip is from Grace to You, it is on 1 Timothy. MacArthur told church members ahead of his sermon that many people contracted COVID and it probably went through our church in maybe December or January. The pastor said he and his wife, Patricia, enjoyed our own bout with COVID for about a week and a half.. Its wrong to mock and you should try to win them over without mockery. "[37], MacArthur is an outspoken critic of same-sex marriage, the ordination of women, the Roman Catholic Church, and the social justice movement. It is also grossly unfair (and dishonest) for you to misrepresent my position as making some pastors untouchable. If the cap fits.on the other hand if it doesnt then I accept your apology! And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. His message contained enough truth to make it seem plausible, but at heart it was man-centered. I was not picking on one church: you offered Matt Chandler as an example of how mega churches get it right and I was replying to that by urging caution. Purpose doesnt have a parking spot is no substitute for many are the plans in a mans heart but it is the Lords purpose that prevails. [15], Nearly 43 years after beginning in the pulpit of Grace Community, MacArthur completed one of his own life goals,[2] that of preaching through the entire New Testament on June 5, 2011. I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying. [10], While at Bob Jones University in South Carolina, MacArthurs father recruited him to the Voice of Calvary singing quartet, often broadcast on Christian radio in Southern California. Do we really believe that the Holy Spirit is incapable of working, without us chiding things along? It is wonderful stuff Matt and Tim Keller are two mega church US pastors who I listen to every week! It was not an accusation, nor an attack. He argued at the time that such mandates violated constitutionally protected religious liberties. If I was a young Christian I know I could have easily been swept along with this stuff it seems such an attractive message, and he is such an attractive man. 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