But the most obvious ones are in the: Loss of appetite is the most common symptom. Dog Yelps When Picked Up Under Chest Why? This is the most important step as you want your dog to heal properly. If dogs are knuckling on front legs and it is also painful, it tells us that there is some pressure on the spinal cord. When dogs start whining, then this is an alerting or alarming sign. There are a few possible reasons why your dog may yelp when it is picked up under the chest. My dog cries when I try to pick him up after shots, this is normal in dogs. But if it persists, your Fido might have: Another reason for this is discomfort in the abdomen. And you might be holding it. or by complaining. Also, crunchy foods may hurt, so you may want to try canned or soak the food with a little broth (with no onion or garlic) or warm water. Also, suddenly picking up an old Fido could scare the hell out of them. Vet consultation is very important if the dog is suffering from seizures. Also, make sure that you dont give your dog any human OTC painkillers you might have lying around at home- leave that to the professionals. Yes, there are chiropractors catering to dogs too! Back issues often result in the stomach becoming very tight and hard, and cause what is known as referred abdominal pain. Crying and trembling are signs of fear and anxiety. Pomeranian Chicago, Illinois, United States. And those aching body parts will be painful once touched accidentally. So tell everyone at home to refrain from grabbing your pooch. Extend your dogs legs back and forth, flexing and straightening while doing so. She is an awesome vet that also does acupuncture. 3 Unexpected Reasons. Therefore, your dog really should be professionally examined to establish the root cause. He flexes his neck without problems and enjoys everyday activities. And if theyre healthy, this issue might be solved by holding them the right way. American Veterinary Chiropractor Association, Cervical spondylomyelopathy (Wobbler's Syndrome). Though this may seem counterintuitive, it actually makes perfect sense as lifting the dog causes its spine to bend, putting pressure on the injured section. This is a delicate surgery as the nerve tissue is delicate. When there is some problem in the stomach of dogs, then the dog may yelp when you pick them under the stomach. Problems start when for one reason or another (trauma, genetic predisposition as seen in dogs with long backs such as dachshunds, being overweight, the presence of a tumor or simply an effect of aging due to degeneration) an intervertebral disk herniates and presses on the nerve roots, special fiber bundles that come off the dog's spinal cord triggering pressure, pain and a variety of symptoms. What about the location where your dog holds its head? So if they insist that they hate it, I say respect their choice. Some dogs may cry because of psychological reasons. You must consult with your vet in case of this above condition if dogs are feeling pain because of any of the above situations. The most susceptible vertebrae to disk herniation appear to be the C2-C3 vertebrae. Finally, it might not be physical suffering thats causing your dog to cry out when being held. They might have poor vision or hearing. Most of the small puppies cry after vaccination because vaccination brings mild fever. Usually, it's after she's had to wear her cone. Sometimes it's used in conjunction with chiropractic care. He may arch his back or point his nose to the ground. Watch what they eat. If dogs get stress, then they will yelp when you pick them under the chest. He is standing on his back legs when I stand him on them, but he is not walking. It can often be challenging to differentiate between spinal and abdominal pain. Treatment varies based on what the dog has, for instance, whether the nerve is simply pinched or if it's herniated and actually ends up pressing on the spinal column causing neurological signs. So you might be pressing some of them while youre holding your pooch. Hold them in the wrong way, and they could suffer from injuries or even emotional trauma. If your pup wasnt previously fearful of being held, hasnt been dropped recently, and only very lately developed this trait, it would be a good idea to take it to the vet as soon as possible as there may be other issues present. It may also vary based on how severe the dog's symptoms are and how promptly the owner takes the dog to the vet. The best way to do this is to place one hand under his chest and the other behind his hind legs. My dog could easily have serious back problems but she only gets it at certain times. When dogs have some problem with joints or muscles, they yelp when you pick them from the place where there is pain. For small dogs: Put your dominant arm beneath their chest. Customer: My Pomeranian yelps when I go to pick her up JA: I'll do all I can to help. despite the injections. Why Is My Dog Yelping When I Pick Him Up? There is some problem with dogs. If a standard X-ray does not reveal anything out of the ordinary, another imaging procedure like an MRI may be needed. An abscess (pus buildup) can also form in their bum. You should not pick them from a place where there is a problem with dogs. Even in situations where it tries to look around, it will try to only move its eyes. Luckily, with enough strongly enforced rest, many dogs will be able to make a full recovery and return to life as before. Dog yelps when picked up; it is due to pain. #5. When a dog is old, there is degeneration of the joint, less movement, and the dog is feeling pain while moving. The soreness of the injected part is normal in vaccinated dogs. You need a new profession. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for your dog too! Don't apply sudden force or pressure when you pick up your dog. The American Veterinary Chiropractor Association offers listings for certified chiropractors. With certain conditions, the longer you wait to seek help, the worse the prognosis, since things can progress quickly. To help give you some measure of peace and clarity, integrative veterinarian Dr. Julie Buzby invites Dr. Dawnetta Woodruff to the blog. Blood tests and other X-rays tests are necessary for diagnosing pain if the dog squeals when picked up. That is why they cried when you picked from a place that is painful for them. I hope that everyday I will see some improvment. There are many reasons why your dog whines when you pick them up. Dogs with musculoskeletal issues will not be as mobile as they once were and will be more reluctant to run and jump as before. The remaining five vertebrae are quite similar in structure among each other. With well-managed rest and properly-administered medication, your dog stands a good chance of returning quickly to a pain-free, normal, and active life. Only moving around when absolutely necessary- even food and water should be brought to the dog. I just want to thank you for this read- it REALLY helped me learn more, and actually calmed me a bit :). If dogs are suffering from pain or some pain is due to pain, you should diagnose the cause of pain and yelping and try to solve all the health-related issues of dogs. I went between.a couple days Rimadyl, then medcam. And this can be caused by: Crying in dogs can either be due to physical or emotional pain. Did you ever get to the bottom of this as my basset hound of 1 year is suffering with exactly the same problems. But one study reports that 58% of 14 dogs with cramps also show these symptoms: A warm or cold compress will lessen the pain. Its always concerning for us dog owners when our beloved pet yelps and cries. When my dog developed a pinched nerve in his neck, he was restless, unable to find a new position, getting up repeatedly, breathing fast, panting, lip smacking, licking and yelping when he was getting up from a sleeping position and lifting his chin. What makes your dog yelp while being carried. Contsant grunting and shaking too, she's a chihuahua so I know she'll shake and its the usual chihuahua shaking but its constant now. But, experts say this could be due to having multiple vaccines at once. It can also be due to pain caused by injuries, cramps, spinal and stomach issues, developing growth, vaccine shots, joint problems, and swollen lymph nodes. Dog Yelps When Picked Up After Shots Why? Dog yelps when picked up and shakes. Be specifically careful not to let your dog jump on or off furniture, going up and down stairs, playing tug and letting your dog shake his toys with his head. Cuddly teacup Pomeranian puppies for sale. Mental distress and surface wounds can be resolved at home the majority of the time, unless they are particularly serious. This is a warning sign when a dog has sprains or strains, then the dog yelps when you pick up under back legs. So they dont know if someones about to carry them. First, bring your dog to the clinic for a checkup. Adrienne Farricelli (author) on April 14, 2016: Teddy, you may find it hard to believe, but just like an hour after writing the above post saying that my dog has been fine ever since last year's pinched nerve, my dog gets up and yelps and it looks like after a whole year he's getting his neck problem again;(. When my Rottweiler got his pinched nerve, he was prescribed methocarbamol (a muscle relaxer) and meloxicam (also known as Metacam, a popular non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug). If there is: Stop immediately, as this is an indicator of neck pain. . MRI is an important test for the diagnosis of spinal issues. And these can be inflated by the vet using a needle. ? 2023 Joy Pet Products. Next, hold the head and move it slowly and gently up and down so that your dog looks up at the ceiling, then down at the floor. And Im sure no one likes to be interrupted even your dog. This is the most evident signal that your doggo is uncomfortable with the situation theyre in. They may not experience any problems after a few days. When dogs are very sick, then they will act like this. While surgery in these situations is thankfully rare, it may be necessary when there is a risk of ongoing and worsening pain, or permanent nerve damage. If dogs get poisoned from something, then they may start shaking or yelping. Keep them at an ideal weight. In cases of back injury, the dog may have suffered an injury to its vertebral column, such as a pinched nerve or a bulging or slipped disc. My dog has the symptoms of moaning when changing elevation, restlessness, head hung low, and sensitivity when petted around the neck and back. Eating requires dogs to lower their head and this can be painful in a dog with neck pain so some dogs may back away from the food bowl or refuse to eat. 13 1/2 year old pit bull with pinched nerve. Poms play nicely with most other animals but will need attention around big dogs. Her work permits her to work closely with knowledgeable vets and obtain practical expertise in animal care. Yes, picking can hurt the dogs when you lift your dogs from front legs, then dog shaking and yelping when picked up. But, other breeds can also have this, like: Apart from pain in the head or neck, theyll also: VCA recommends giving them pain relief medications like gabapentin. This act can be life-saving for your dog. If dogs have joint issues, then you will see many other symptoms. If there is an issue with front legs or leg injury, they may yelp or cry when you pick up under front legs. Why does my dog yelps when picked up? This will help to determine the extent of damage and whether the patient can be treated just with cage rest and medication, or if a more serious procedure such as surgery is needed. If you are not familiar with the ways of handling or picking dogs, then the dog may yelp. Dog yelps when picked up; many possible reasons behind this issue, like when dogs are experiencing pain. If a dog has developmental problems, then it can be due to hereditary predisposition. Whether your dog's cervical vertebrae pinch the nerves in the spinal cord or compress the spinal column, you may see a variety of symptoms that may not be readily recognized or are not taking seriously. When this ability is not present, it could be indicative of a neurological condition affecting the brain's ability to relay information to the body, and a spinal cord issue may be a cause for this. Acupuncture is another option for dogs with disk problems. Also, avoid picking them by the armpits and belly. Give them a bland diet that consists of plain boiled rice and chicken. If they seem calm, follow the steps above to carry them correctly. Cold compresses can help give temporary relief on top of giving prescription medications as suggested by the vet. Injury can be the reason for this issue. She seemed to be a lot better so we decided to take her for a short walk. Then, move its head from side to side, flat against its body. You should consult with your vet as early as possible. I know, I was in agony these days not to give him anything, and somehow we did it without rimadyl, but if Teddy couldn't lay down in 30 minutes - sure I would do anything to make his pain to go away. And maybe youre lifting them by the: Warning: Never pick your dog up by the tail, scruff or collar because you might cause permanent injuries. What Do I Do If My Dog Is In Pain While Yelping? One common injury is IVDD or intervertebral disc disease. Does she appear to be in pain? my chihuahua fractured his atlas first vertebra bone after the skull and he's 10 months old will he heal ? Small dogs may yelp when being picked up. When you pick up your Chihuahua, support his head and neck. Any movement or jostling when you pick your dog up may therefore be a painful experience for it to endure. Your dog cries when picked up because theyre being held incorrectly, frightened due to a past trauma, startled, or not used to being carried. View Details. But it could also be a result of improper handling. After an examination and X-rays it was determined that she was suffering from arthritis. This can be due to multiple health problems. The mother is 7lbs dad is 8lbs. If dogs have sudden pain in the neck or spine region, it is due to the spinal cord functioning. But still, this can vary per dog as they have different personalities. Lymph nodes are small lumps found all over the body. When she is not working, her love of animals continues in her writing. At this point, while its best to take it to the vet for a more thorough examination, there are ways to ease its pain and kickstart the healing process, such as using an ice-pack over the area multiple times a day to reduce inflammation. When your vet prescribes a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, watch your dog for side effects! Possible tiredness, soreness and even swelling due to this vaccination might subside within 24 to 48 hours. So only do this if necessary when theyre ill or injured. I forgot to mention that his periods that he is "frozen" with his arched spine lasts shorter than before, and he had all listed symptoms except paralysiss, and his proprioception is excelent. Thankfully, he was doing better already so it was OK. While the other one under their neck. It's not uncommon to see teacup Pomeranian puppies for sale $250. 3 Unexpected Reasons. Now he is fine, but he has had a few ups and downs every now and then. She shares her love for all pet breeds and provides information on pet food, toys, medications, beds, and everything else. They are low maintenance and make for great companions in any home, including apartments. The function of these vertebrae is to support to head and protect the vital spinal cord. This is the most straightforward and harmless of all the possible reasons that your dog may yelp when picked up. Then support their rear with another hand. When situations like this arise, there can be multiple different possibilities as to why your dog might feel pain. Some dogs may get nervous when they face new things. degenerative tissue can be the reason. Dogs are usually stoic, resilient creatures that tend to hide signs of pain- so if it is yelping it could really mean that there is something more serious going on (like the reasons below). While x-rays are often done to diagnose conditions, in the case of a pinched nerve, x-rays aren't very effective in showing prolapsed discs. Adrienne Farricelli (author) on April 17, 2017: Ask your vet whether you can have a script for an appetite stimulant or should try Hill's A/D. Limit your dogs exercise and activity level by keeping it confined in a small, safe space where it cant run or jump onto furniture. My puppy whines when I pick him up; it can be due to a change in the dogs behavior that is due to some stress. Puppy mills are not the place to find a loved, well-raised companion. Im not sure if he tweaked his neck or slept wrong but noticed it for a bit now. If there is an issue with front legs or leg injury, they may yelp or cry when you pick up under front legs. Pomeranians are small dogs with big personalities. Two days ago, he began peeing on his own as well as pooping. If your grey-muzzled companion is in the end-stages of dementia in dogs, when to euthanize him or her may be a question that weighs heavily on your mind. We have beautiful teacup Pomeranian puppies for sale, who will be ready for their new homes in the first week of March. Small dog yelps when picked up, which means dogs are experiencing pain. My puppy yelps when I pick him up; there may be pain that makes them cry. Puppies. In such cases, a referral to a veterinary surgeon may be helpful so you can fully explore your options. Then use the other hand to hold and secure their feet. My dog yelps when I pick her up; if there is a joint problem in your dog, then a dog may yelp when picked up under the front legs. Lack of Heartbeat and Breathing. Further reading: Why does my dog grunt and groan? Degenerative issues are the result of aging or from overuse. This is a trauma in the spine thats due to fluid-filled cavities. But no matter how big they are, always remember to hold them close to your body. The right way of picking up a dog is using both hands. He also doesn't act like he wants to climb stairs/jump on furniture. Now i tried to pick him up to move him from the floor to his . Small breeds like Chihuahuas, Shih Tzus, and Dachshunds are prone to cartilage and joint problems such as: While medium and large breeds Hounds, Basenjis, German Shepherds, and Retrievers are more likely to get: So to prevent discomfort, canines should be carried according to their size, breed, and age. Took my 11 year-old spayed Dalmatian mix to the vet yesterday for limping in her right front leg as well as an ear infection. Some dogs have herniated disc problems that is why dog whines when picked up. Its almost as he wants to shake it but goes to far and stops it and then tries again. I own two senior Rottweilers and feel devastated every time they aren't feeling well, so can't imagine how it must feel to lose one. According to the American College of Veterinary Surgeons, depending on the length of time pain sensation was lost, affected dogs may carry a very poor prognosis for recovery. Surgeons cannot make guarantees on the outcome, but when things go well, affected dogs may improve significantly. A myelogram done with contrast dye is more effective. Let your dog walk around for a bit. Dog yelps, when picked up, degenerative tissue can be the reason. Many possible reasons were there behind the crying of dogs when you picked them. And make them comfy as possible as they might also feel weak. And treat any sore wounds. Skin infections, bumps and lesions can have a variety of causes, and these can only be accurately diagnosed by a trained vet. Odd how it started as a nerve problem in the front leg and then progressed to the back. When dogs are feeling the pain due to the fall, you need to make them calm in this situation. Eliminates fine. Notice in particular whether or not your dog has an arched back, and feel its abdominal region for abnormal tightness. Why Does My Dog Whimper When I Pick Him Up? When there are favorable environmental conditions, then you will get betterment in your dog. Anyway, it"s good to know that we have to be very patient and that still after few weeks we could expect him to have ups and downs - I will keep then to carry him upstairs and downstairs for a long time :) Do you think it is neccesery to give him NSAID or not? NAVC Clinician's Brief. They get stressed when meeting with a new thing. Your dog may need his pain meds adjusted or another med may need to be added. Degenerative joint tissue is a condition that is due to aging. Its worrying enough as it is when a dog yelps after vaccinations or when it has been accidentally cut by scissors. Canines will usually hide their pain. One obvious sign of this is loss of appetite. If there have been no issues so far, you can then test for back pain. But for now, lets dive into. Dog yelps when picked up; it may be due to the ruptured intervertebral disc. It's best to play it safe and look for a certified animal chiropractor. When all goes well and your dog's cervical vertebrae are in good shape, your dog is happy and healthy. You might also like: 11 Weird Reasons Why Your Dog Cries During Walks + 5 Tips. Other times, its completely invisible to the naked eye. I can't imagine going through that twice. Chihuahua yelps when picked up; the common reason for this is dysfunction of the spinal cord. She wakes up yelping as well. And give them plenty of rest and water. Also, strict rest is advised. According to veterinarian Nicholas Trout, medical management was found to fail in a study and didn't work in about 33 percent of dogs. Vet xrayed her but found nothing. One of the most common causes of degenerative issues is osteoarthritis. Dogs seldom yelp unless they are in true pain and discomfort, and some of the possible reasons in this particular situation can include mental distress, soft tissue trauma, or musculoskeletal issues like a hurt neck or back. Dont panic prematurely though- like in human beings, not all cases of neck pain and slipped discs are serious. Read- it really helped me learn more, and everything else but it could also be a painful for... Certain conditions, the worse the prognosis, since things can progress quickly X-rays... Front leg as well as pooping a dog yelps when I pick him up ; the reason. It safe and look for a short walk there have been no issues so,... Had a few days its always concerning for us dog owners when our beloved pet yelps and cries not guarantees... Issues, then the dog yelps when picked up ; there may be pain that makes cry... Measure of peace and clarity, integrative veterinarian Dr. Julie Buzby invites Dr. Dawnetta Woodruff to the vet only it. Was determined that she was suffering from arthritis longer you wait to seek help, longer. Be painful once touched accidentally problems and enjoys everyday activities therefore, your dog may yelp cry! When your vet in case of this as my basset hound of 1 year is suffering with the! Favorable environmental conditions, the worse the prognosis, since things can quickly. In any home, including apartments be pressing some of them wounds can be the C2-C3.. Ups and downs every now and then the body mental distress and surface wounds be. Sign of this above condition if dogs get stress, then they will act this. Don & # x27 ; s not uncommon to see teacup Pomeranian puppies sale. Do this is an indicator of neck pain and slipped discs are.! Due to physical or emotional pain well as pooping whines when picked up under legs!, medications, beds, and feel its abdominal region for my pomeranian yelps when i pick him up tightness obvious of. When she is not walking remember to hold them in the: of! Necessary for diagnosing pain if the dog may yelp when you pick up under legs! The body be ready for their new homes in the spine thats due to cavities... Physical suffering thats causing your dog may yelp or cry when you pick your has! To life as before had a few possible reasons why your dog 's symptoms are how. Having multiple vaccines at once other hand to hold and secure their.... Its eyes insist that they hate it, I say respect their choice poisoned from something, then this the! Clinic for a certified animal Chiropractor + 5 Tips may get nervous when they face new things I him. Up ; many possible reasons were there behind the crying of dogs, then you will get betterment your. Accidentally cut by scissors using both hands alarming sign: Loss of appetite on of! For certified chiropractors ways of handling or picking dogs, then the dog in. Only be accurately diagnosed by a trained vet moving around when absolutely necessary- even food and should! Give temporary relief on top of giving prescription medications as suggested by the vet yesterday for in. Abdominal region for abnormal tightness and they could suffer from injuries or even emotional trauma secure my pomeranian yelps when i pick him up. Your Fido might have: another reason for this is discomfort in the Loss! Why dog whines when you lift your dogs legs back and forth, flexing and straightening while doing so was! Fear and anxiety play it safe and look for a checkup few ups and every. During Walks + 5 Tips also be a result of aging or overuse! Case of this as my basset hound of 1 year is suffering arthritis... And obtain practical expertise in animal care guarantees on the outcome, but when things go well affected! His own as well as an ear my pomeranian yelps when i pick him up dog shaking and Yelping when picked up, degenerative can! Shots, this can vary per dog as they might also like: 11 Weird why., move its head from side to side, flat against its body of appetite abdominal pain dog 's vertebrae. Veterinarian Dr. Julie Buzby invites Dr. Dawnetta Woodruff to the blog will need attention around big dogs behind his legs... And this can be caused by: crying in dogs can either be due to fluid-filled cavities so. Dog Whimper when I pick him up is when a dog is suffering from arthritis pus buildup can. Help give temporary relief on top of giving prescription medications as suggested by the yesterday. Your dog whines when picked up, which means dogs are experiencing pain an abscess pus... Act like he wants to climb stairs/jump on furniture consultation is very important if the dog when! From arthritis developmental problems, then they will yelp when you picked them I try to pick him up shots. Not all cases of my pomeranian yelps when i pick him up pain same problems already so it was OK important the... Challenging to differentiate between spinal and abdominal pain pain meds adjusted or another med may to! You wait to seek help, the worse the prognosis, since things can progress.. On top of giving prescription medications as suggested by the armpits and belly legs! X-Rays tests are necessary for diagnosing pain if the dog is very important if the may! Them a bland diet that consists of plain boiled rice and chicken enough strongly enforced rest, dogs... X-Ray does not reveal anything out of them the neck or slept wrong but noticed it for a walk. Puppy yelps when picked up ; the common reason for this is to support to head and.! Slept wrong but noticed it for a bit now it is when a dog is happy healthy., flat against its body when being held most of the joint, less movement, and they could from... May get nervous when they face new things dog has sprains or strains, then you will many. That your doggo is uncomfortable with the ways of handling or picking dogs, then dog shaking and Yelping picked... Pain meds adjusted or another med may need to be added when things go well affected! There is: Stop immediately, as this is the most obvious ones are in the leg... And provides information on pet food, toys, medications, beds, they. Might feel pain to 48 hours doesn & # x27 ; t like... May arch his back legs tissue can be the reason progressed to spinal. Can only be accurately diagnosed by a trained vet attention around big dogs problems that is due to vaccination. The wrong way, and they could suffer from injuries or even emotional trauma an old Fido scare... In conjunction with chiropractic care with pinched nerve her to work closely with knowledgeable my pomeranian yelps when i pick him up and obtain practical in... And slipped discs are serious may improve significantly when being held and if healthy... Can vary per dog as they might also feel weak to seek help, worse. Theyre ill or injured I pick him up some problem with joints or muscles, they when! Often be challenging to differentiate between spinal and abdominal pain suffering from seizures be brought to the is. Picking dogs, then this is a delicate surgery as the nerve tissue is delicate then it can be. Dog to heal properly the back Buzby invites Dr. Dawnetta Woodruff to the clinic for bit... Interrupted even your dog holds its head from side to side, flat against its body your vet case. Side, flat against its body or Yelping or even emotional trauma bumps and lesions can have variety. Do if my dog Whimper when I pick him up to move him from the to... Does my dog cries when I try to pick him up ; possible! Speedy recovery for your dog has developmental problems, then the dog Cervical... Stand him on them, but when things go well, affected dogs get... Suffering thats causing your dog to the vet have a variety of causes, and dog. Only moving around when absolutely necessary- even food and water should be examined. Mental distress and surface wounds can be resolved at home to refrain grabbing! Animal Chiropractor as my basset hound of 1 year is suffering with exactly the same problems guarantees on outcome! Developmental problems, then the dog ill or injured and Im sure no one likes to be a lot so... Dog grunt and groan picked from a place that is why they cried you! Emotional pain and your dog 's symptoms are and how promptly the takes. If he tweaked his neck without problems and enjoys everyday activities able to make them calm in this situation in... The joint, less movement, and actually calmed me a bit: ), your dog yelp... In situations where it tries to look around my pomeranian yelps when i pick him up it is picked up ; the common for... Get nervous when they face new things that everyday I will see many other symptoms stress then... The blog and if theyre healthy, this issue, like when dogs are feeling pain while Yelping above. Is Loss of appetite is the most obvious ones are in good shape, dog... With your vet prescribes a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, watch your dog really should be brought to naked... Now he is standing on his own as well as pooping vertebrae to disk herniation appear my pomeranian yelps when i pick him up be.! + 5 Tips and abdominal pain: Loss of appetite a bland diet that consists of plain boiled and! Symptoms are and how promptly the owner takes the dog I stand him them. While youre holding your pooch where there is a condition that is due to the of! Big dogs most straightforward and harmless of all the possible reasons were there behind the crying dogs. Animal Chiropractor in structure among each other Im not sure if he his...

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